In this episode of Startups For The Rest Of Us, Rob and Mike talk about different ways to introduce new ideas into your business. These are ways to broaden your horizons as a business owner and learn how other people may be solving the same problem you are but doing so in different ways.
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Mike [00:00:00]: In this episode of “Startups for the Rest of Us,” Rob and I are going to be talking about nine ways to introduce new ideas into your business. This is “Startups for the Rest of Us,” episode 312.
Mike [00:00:16]: Welcome to “Startups for the Rest of Us,” the podcast that helps developers, designers and entrepreneurs be awesome at building, launching and growing software products. Whether you’ve built your first product, or you’re just thinking about it. I’m Mike –
Rob [00:00:25]: And I have a mouthful of food.
Mike [00:00:27]: – (laughs) And we’re here to share our experiences to help you avoid the same mistakes we’ve made. How are you doing this week, Rob?
Rob [00:00:32]: Well, I’m a little behind on launch, so I’m eating in here while I’m muted. Sorry about the ole mouthful-of-food thing. Things are going well. Went to Coverted yesterday, which is Leadpages’ conference, for the last two days, and so kind of getting over the extrovert hangover. I love going to conferences. I love meeting people, and I did a short talk about Drip and stuff along with Clay. It was good fun to meet folks, but then the next day just got to settle down into work-from-home day, which was really nice, so I can just be in my little cave listening to music and crank through some emails.
Mike [00:01:04]: Very cool. Yeah, I was wondering how Converted went. I saw a bunch of comments on Twitter, and there were some discussions in some forums that I’m part. People were talking about it a little bit. It was interesting. It seemed like it was a good conference to go to.
Rob [00:01:15]: What I enjoy these days is meeting new people. I was able to connect with Andrew Warner, who I already knew, because he spoke at MicroConf a few years back, and we’ve talked when I go on [?] and stuff; but I haven’t seen him in person in five years, maybe, so it was really cool. He threw a little – it was a whiskey tasting, in essence, but it was just a little party at his place. I was able to go up there. Derek and Anna were with me and Sheri, of course. It was good to connect with him. I’d never met Derek Halperin in person. I met Pat Flynn in person. These are all people that I’ve corresponded with in one way or another over the years, and it’s just kind of cool to meet them face to face. I also got to meet – I’d never met Ezra Firestone, who’s really big in the e-commerce space, but super cool guy, really interesting, and we had some good conversations. That’s what I really enjoy, is hearing the inside of people’s businesses, hearing what they’re up to and just connecting with them. It was fun. It was a good conference.
Mike [00:02:00]: Awesome. I’m just getting over being sick. I’ve been sick for a couple of weeks now. My wife got sick earlier this year, and she ended up with some – I don’t know if it was a bacterial infection, or virus, or whatever. Anyway, the doctors said that it was resistant to pretty much everything. It will go away on its own in eight to ten weeks, so I was deathly afraid that I was going to end up with the same thing. Fortunately, it seems to have mostly gone away at this point, so I’m very happy and thankful that that’s not going to be an ongoing issue for the next couple of months.
Rob [00:02:28]: Yeah, but even being sick for two weeks is a big bummer. Did it negatively impact your productivity?
Mike [00:02:33]: Oh, yeah. I couldn’t sleep at night. My sinuses were all congested, and it was just terrible. I was tossing and turning all night, not getting very much sleep, so my productivity nose-dived to pretty close to zero, but there’s not much you can really do about it either.
Rob [00:02:47]: You know, it seems like you get sick quite a bit. Do you feel like you get sick more than most people?
Mike [00:02:52]: I don’t think so. At least I hadn’t really thought about it. I didn’t feel like I got sick very often. It seems like when the kids go back to school, or if they have a break and then they go to school – I was talking about this with my Mastermind group earlier this week – it almost feels like the kids go to school, and they have all these viruses that they’re carrying with them, and they trade them around like Pokémon cards that nobody wants. Then they take them home and give them to their parents (laughs).
Rob [00:03:16]: Yeah, we had a pediatrician who used to tell us that the big spike in sickness is the week or two after school starts, and that’s exactly the reason. All the germs you’ve been carrying with you that your family’s gotten used to gets put back together, and then it just spreads like wildfire until everybody gets immune to it again.
Mike [00:03:30]: Yep. Other than that – on Blue Tick, I actually did make some progress on it. I onboarded a new customer into Blue Tick and restarted some discussions with some people that I’ve onboarded that had dropped off the radar a little bit to help understand why they’d stopped using it. Interestingly enough, there were a couple of cases where they said, “It’d be really nice if you could do this.” I was like, “Coincidentally, we can do that.” They’re like, “Oh, really? Let’s talk. Let’s schedule a meeting, and let’s set that up.” It was just interesting that there was a little bit of disconnect in some cases where the app can already do certain things, and they didn’t realize it, so just jumpstarting those conversations again and then working with them directly to help them set up that automation so that it’s integrated more into their systems. I added another paying customer this morning, actually, so –
Rob [00:04:16]: Wahoo!
Mike [00:04:17]: Yeah, things are, I think, moving in the right direction; but it’s still too early to tell for sure, I guess.
Rob [00:04:21]: But it’s forward progress, and this is like we talked about on our update episode a couple episodes ago. It’s really focusing hard on how do I get that next person to use it. If you are talking to five people and three of them have reasons they don’t want to use it, or objections, it’s figuring out, “Did I just talk to the wrong people, or do they need something that I need to build in order to get them to use it?” So, I think that’s good news. Onboarding a new customer and then adding another paying customer, I think, is pretty good progress for the week.
Mike [00:04:48]: Yeah.
Rob [00:04:49]: Yeah, on the Drip side, we actually launched a free plan last week. We had our $1 plan that had been running since Leadpages acquired us. We made the decision in tandem with Clay and those guys to just make it free at this point, so it’s free up to 100 subscribers. The hard part about free with email, and the reason that Mail Chimp has been one of the only providers able to make it work, is that you can really run into a spam issue, because people can send a lot of spam through you, and you don’t want that to happen because you have these sending IPs that need to stay solvent, so to speak. With the $1 plan, we definitely saw a lot of new spammers coming in. We were writing code constantly to get out ahead of it. Not to overemphasize it, but it’s kind of a machine learning algorithm, a little bit of AI, really focused, just looking at patterns. We can get out ahead of people sending now. We don’t have to wait for them to send to figure out, or to have some signals, that this person is likely going to send poor-quality email. It’s pretty fascinating looking at the data, and we’re digging more into that, but it allows us to launch that free plan. Of course, it takes resources, right? It takes that financial backing, and that’s what Leadpages has. They $37 million in venture capital they raised allows us to – we have six, full-time support people now. Can you imagine? We had one the entire time that we were bootstrapped. Then in the past 90 days, added, trained, onboarded; and we’re now fully staffed with five additional support people. It’s crazy. I couldn’t imagine having the bandwidth or the money to do that, so that’s the luxury of that side of the coin.
Mike [00:06:18]: Yeah, I can imagine the issues with the spammers. It becomes an arms race at some point. You have to deal with it and have to be out in front of it, but at the same time – it’s partially protecting yourself, but in essence you’re also protecting all of the other customers that you have. So, you can’t just let it go for a little while.
Rob [00:06:35]: That’s right. The good news is once we got big enough where we were sending tens of millions of emails, it matters a lot less. If someone gets in and sends 5,000 emails and 1,000 of them bounce, that’s a 20 percent bounce rate. It’s crazy. That is not good at all if you’re sending on your own IP. But when you’re sending 40, 50, 60 million emails, 1,000 bounces actually isn’t that big a deal. Since we’re able to catch people really quickly and stay out ahead of it – it felt good to figure out the signals, because before you experience it, it’s like, “How are we going to figure this out, and how are we going to find this?” But it became, like you said, a little bit of a game of cat-and-mouse, and it was a fun whiteboarding session with Derek and I to plot out all the things and then say, “How can we look at these quickly in real time without completely hammering the database?” You have to have all that in mind. You can’t just run queries every five minutes across everybody’s accounts. You have to figure out a way to do it pretty intelligently. So, that’s where we are. We’re definitely out ahead of it right now, but we notice that about every six months we have to upgrade our database. About every six months, we have a bunch of performance and scaling stuff to do, and about every six months we have to get out ahead of people trying to send spam, whether intentionally or unintentionally. Those six-month things are staggered, luckily. It doesn’t all happen at once, but it definitely is – we essentially have full-time people now working in all of those areas. Where before it was like all developers are building features to push the product forward, now we actually have one developer who all he’s doing is performance and scaling, and one guy who’s purely focused on just anti-spam stuff. These are the good problems to have. It’s the part of success that shows that you’re growing. You become a target as you get more prominent.
Mike [00:08:09]: Yeah, I had to add another server to my infrastructure a couple of weeks ago, so I know. Those issues are just a pain in the neck.
Rob [00:08:17]: Totally.
Mike [00:08:17]: Why don’t we dive into today’s episode? We’re going to be talking about different ways to introduce new ideas into your business. This applies to two different situations. The first one is if you are a full-time entrepreneur. You’ve been working on your own things. You’re self-employed. You’ve been doing that for a while. One of the challenges that you’ll run into is that you have a certain way of doing things, and it’s probably not obvious to you that there are other companies out there that are solving the same problems you are, and they’re going about them in different ways. So, the question is: Which of those ways should you be doing it? Are there other ways that you can bring in new processes, or new efficiencies, into the business, and do things better than you were before? And without having visibility into those companies, it’s really difficult to do that. The other side is if you are an employee of a company and you want to learn about how other people are doing things, you want to improve stuff in the current business that you’re working in, how do you go about doing that? How do you learn what other people are doing? Unless you change jobs, the answer is that it’s probably pretty difficult to do that. We’re going to talk about how to address that problem from both angles, whether you’re the business owner trying to bring in new ideas, or you are an existing employee in a company and you’re just simply trying to bring in new ideas, new ways of doing things either to solve existing problems that are just [cloogey?] and people have just dealt with it for a long time, or there’re things that are just completely blatantly done incorrectly because nobody’s really had the ability to stand up and say, “Hey, they’re doing this over here, and that’s a better way to do it.”
Rob [00:09:45]: Cool. So, let’s dive in.
Mike [00:09:46]: The first one is, I would say, probably the old standby that everyone goes to. The first one is books. I remember Lars Lofgren at MicroConf last year saying that he goes out, and he just – he’s a voracious reader, and he will download essentially a new business book every single week from Amazon and just tear through it. I think that that’s a fascinating way to go about learning and aggregating as much information as you can about how other businesses operate and how they’re doing things. I think it tends much more towards the business side of books, so it’s not really about the technical mechanics of how to do something. It’s how different companies are structured, what sorts of marketing efforts they do. The basic idea there is that you can pull a lot of good information from books, and you don’t necessarily have to read the entire thing. That’s one of the key pieces, I think, that factors into being able to get through 50 books in a year. It’s hard to sit down and read for a couple of hours every day. You can do it. It’s certainly possible, but I don’t think that most people have the time for that. If you can go through those books, read through the table of contents, start skimming specific chapters that are about things that you’ve never learned before, or that you’re aware of but not necessarily have a good knowledge of. That will broaden your base of understanding of a particular topic. From there, then you can go out and seek other information that’ll help you drill into specific areas that you find either helpful, or insightful, or just things that you want to learn more about.
Rob [00:11:09]: Yeah. What I find is when I’m stuck – and it may be stuck on a particular problem, or it may be just stuck wondering, “What’s next here? What’s next for the business? What’s next for me?” – I find that I go through these periods of just massive consumption of blogs, podcasts, books, other things we’ll talk about today. Then other times I’m listening to a lot fewer of them, but at different turning points I will listen to, through Audible, two books a week, like full-on business books. Like you said, I skip around a bit, because certain chapters are about things that either I know I don’t need, or are not going to be helpful. But I love the way that it gets me thinking along certain lines, and it kind of breaks me out of my typical patterns. I also take a lot of – I won’t say a lot of notes – but I take action notes like I’ve always talked about, where I think, “What action could this cause me to have in the future?” I don’t like taking just general summary notes of books, because I find that even if I refer back to them it doesn’t get me back in the headspace of what the book was saying. So, I try at the time to really take either direct quotes that I can use in my writing, or podcasting, or conferencesm or, I take direct actions like, “We need to think about doing this for Drip,” or, “Think about doing this for MicroConf.” or something like that. Gosh, I will read a lot, a lot of books. I actually think in the past – I talked about I’m getting more back into investing a little more lately. I think I’ve read maybe ten investing books in the past six weeks, and again, “read” meaning through Audible. It’s that kind of voracious consumption that I like.
The thing that I don’t like about books, as much as I do like listening to them, is a lot of stuff – especially if you’re looking at marketing approaches – if it’s kind of a tip/trick/tactic thing, once it’s in a book it tends to be pretty old. Even if it’s six to 12 months old, these things start to age, and they don’t necessarily work as well. If it’s in a book that gets popular, like the book about – you remember the one from I think it was the guy who ran sales for Sales Force. It was “Predictable Revenue”. He had this whole tactic of how to do the cold emails and all that stuff, and that just blew up. Everybody’s doing it now. It’s becoming less and less effective. There are still ways to make it effective, but it really has – it’s not as effective as when you first read it. Whereas if that had been a blogpost or a podcast, so many fewer people consume those. It actually makes it a better thing in the long term, if that makes sense. I take books for high-level stuff, but super-tactical stuff I tend, perhaps, to look more to podcasts.
Mike [00:13:18]: Yeah. Kind of a little side note that I wanted to just briefly mention here was that this is more about broadening your horizons and making sure that you’re, at the very least, peripherally aware of a lot of other things that are going on, or at least some of the things that are going on in other companies and, as you said, getting you out of those patterns that you’re probably used to operating in. This is very different than the just-in-time learning that you’ve talked about previously, where you have a particular problem and you consume as much information as you feel like you need to to get to the point where you’re about 60 to 80 percent of the way educated about it. Then you go start implementing things to learn that last pieces that really need to be taught on the job, so to speak. There’s a difference between broadening your horizons and that just-in-time learning.
[00:14:04] The second way to introduce new ideas into your business is to take a training course. There’s lots of training courses out there. There’s various sites, like udemy.com and coursera.org, udacity.com, skillshare.com. All these places are good resources to go out and learn about different topics that you’re interested. Sometimes it could just be you want to learn a new programming language because you’ve heard about it, and you’re interested in seeing what that has to offer, versus what you’re currently doing. It doesn’t mean you have to use it, but it is nice to be at least peripherally aware of what those things have to offer, and whether or not people with that type of background might be hirable in your environment. Is it going to be an easy transition for them? You can talk to different people about whether or not that would be an easy transition for somebody to make, from let’s say PHP to Ruby, for example. But going through it yourself also gives you a broader context, based on your own experience, how difficult should that be. Getting advice from somebody: “Oh, yeah, it shouldn’t be that difficult to make the switch.” that’s true for them, but it’s not necessarily true for everyone, and it doesn’t give you a complete picture of what it actually takes.
Rob [00:15:11]: Our third way to introduce new ideas into your business is, of course, through blogs and podcasts. I think this depends on the way you like to consume things. Some people prefer to read and skim, in which case blogs are for you. If you’re like me, you’re an audio generator and an audio consumer, so podcasts are going to be the way to go. What I like about podcasts is you can really niche down, and that’s hard to do with things like books and magazines because they need these bigger audiences. When I read business books, when I read – the last time I read “Inc.” magazine and whatever, the other entrepreneur magazine and stuff, the advice is just too general, because they’re looking at the entrepreneurs who’re trying to get started with stuff. That’s just not that interesting to me anymore. It isn’t helpful because the stuff is too general, it’s too beginner. With blogs and podcasts you can look around and you see the community of people that we’re hanging out with day to day. We go to MicroConf. We hang in on the same forums and that kind of stuff, and you can listen to their podcasts. Even folks who are not as far along as you are can often have really good ideas, and you can hear it just by them talking about their business. If you’re doing 50k MRR and there’s someone who’s at 5k or 10k, oftentimes they will have insights that can help you as well. I’m a big fan. We’ve had several episodes where we’ve gone through our top 20 or 30 podcasts, so if you’re interested in that you can look back through our archives to find out who we listen to on an ongoing basis.
Mike [00:16:32]: The fourth way to find new ideas or processes is to hire a contractor or a consultant. I feel like there’s a mild differentiation between these two that I can’t quite put into words. I feel like with contractors you’re generally hiring them for a particular skill set to achieve a specific job, but it almost feels like with consultants you’re asking them to solve a problem, and you don’t give them as many constraints. You don’t say, “It’s got to be done in this particular programming language,” for example, or, “It’s got to be done using these tools.” You essentially say, “Here’s the problem. Please help me find a solution to it.” Regardless of the differentiation between them, I think that there is a lot of value to be had by bringing somebody who works in various businesses into yours to help you achieve certain objectives. Part of the reason for that is that if they’re a contractor or a consultant, they have generally worked for a lot of different companies. It’s interesting. When you look across the spectrum at different consultants who have worked at a lot of different companies, they’ve seen a lot of things that you just simply wouldn’t have before, and it’s because they’ve been in so many different environments, they’ve solved so many different problems, and they’ve seen the same types of things over and over. Whether those are mistakes or how things are done well, they’re able to provide that information to you and give you some context about where you stand in relation to other businesses, and how they’re solving their problems versus how you’re solving them.
Rob [00:17:53]: Our fifth way to introduce new ideas into your business is to mentor someone, or be an adviser. I know that even way back in the day – let’s think 2008, 2009 – my blog was already up for three or four years, and people would write in for advice. That would, even not doing ongoing mentoring, would help me think through problems in a way that maybe I wouldn’t have thought through before. That was helpful. Then as things progressed and we had the podcast and MicroConf, all of that has helped me look at new ideas. People will bring stuff like, “Hey, I’m trying this new ad channel.” It’s like, “What? I didn’t even know that existed.” This was someone who supposedly I’m mentoring, where actually they’re giving me ideas. Then even more recently, I would say, as an advisor and beginning angel investor, I have really enjoyed the ability to look deep into these SaaS businesses that are coming up. These are essentially bootstrapped, that raised just a tiny bit of funding to help them get to the next level. I’m able to see all the numbers and what they’re doing and how they’re operating and how they’re executing and how the growth is. I can really get a lot of value out of that. Anyway, all that to say I think that this idea of mentoring someone in order to introduce yourself to new ideas is really one that I’m seeing take hold in my own experience.
Mike [00:18:58]: The sixth way is to do some consulting work on the side on your own. I think that you can do this regardless of whether you own your own business or not, because there’s always people out there who will place some value on the things that you know, and the background and experience that you have. Obviously, it’s going to be difficult to go out and do consulting in an area where you have no experience. That’s probably just not going to happen. But, at the same time, you can take the skills and experience that you have and try to take those into different environments, and try to solve similar challenges that other people are facing using their tools and their environment and the skills that you know and morph their environment. I think that as you start doing that type of thing more and more, you see different environments. You start seeing the different ways that people are doing things, and you get more of a sense of why they’re doing it that way. I think that that’s also very important. That sort of thing can also help you identify different business opportunities as well. When you’re doing consulting, because you see so many different things, you know that the same types of problems tend to come up over and over. If you’re working in one particular company, you don’t see them. You see your own problems, but you don’t necessarily see that there’s 30 other companies that are also having those same challenges. So, it can help you identify different business opportunities, but it can also open your eyes as to different ways of doing things as well.
Rob [00:20:015]: Our seventy way to introduce new ideas is to attend a conference with your peers. This would be something like I just talked about, like going to Converted, going to MicroConf, going to Business Of Software; figuring out where folks who are maybe a little bit behind you, a little bit ahead of you, are going. Go to the conference and meet people. What I’ve found is, even as my business has progressed, I’m still able to find people at different conferences. Even though there may be a lot of beginners at a certain conference, you can still find that if you can mingle with the speakers, or you can mingle with the folks who have businesses that are further along, you can get exposed to a lot of new ideas, new tactics, and jostle you out of your own thought process. An example – even at MicroConf Barcelona, I was talking to some folks, and they brought up the topic of investing, which is something that … It was right after the Drip acquisition, so I started noodling on this, like what to do with some new-found cash on hand. They brought it up, and I was like, “Whoa! I didn’t even know you guys cared about that, or thought about that at all.” Suddenly, they were throwing out ideas that they had, and ways that they were investing and ways of hedging things. It was just a cool experience to hear from these guys. In addition, they also talked about some marketing tactics, and some different competitors that were coming up in different spaces that were all relevant for stuff we were doing with Drip. It was something that would never happen in an online context. It wouldn’t happen on a forum. We probably wouldn’t’ve covered it via email, but sitting there having drinks for a couple of hours, just hanging around with interesting people doing interesting things and new ideas on a number of fronts, they’re just going to come out of that.
Mike [00:21:41]: The next way to introduce new ideas is to undergo a joint venture, or partnership, on a very specific project. I think that there’s a lot of different opportunities for this that people aren’t necessarily taking advantage of, because when people think “joint venture” or “partnership,” they tend to be thinking- – I guess with joint ventures, it’s probably not an extended thing. With partnerships, the mental image that comes to mind for people is, “This is going to be a very long-term thing that we’re going to be doing potentially for several years, so I want to be very careful about getting in and working on this with somebody else.” But there’s much shorter things that you can do that fall into that vein, such as writing an e-book, for example, or developing a training course, that do not necessarily require a lot of ongoing effort to maintain that particular product, but you can put those together and work with somebody else – whether it’s something that they came up with the idea, or you came up with the idea – or you find somebody that you just want to work with, and identify one, small thing that you want to do with them, and go through that. You can launch it, get it out there, and then you can move on and go back to your own business, or back to your full-time job, whichever you prefer. You will get the experience that goes along with that. One example that comes to mind that I’ve seen lately is the Big Snow Tiny Conf that I’ve gone to for the past couple of years up in Vermont has started expanding. Now it’s called Big Snow Tiny Conf East. Then they have one that’s in the west that’s run by Dave Rodenbaugh. Putting together a mini conference or mini meet-up for people is something that’s probably pretty new to Dave. I also know that Craig Hewitt is doing one over in Switzerland, or France, or something like that.
Rob [00:23:18]: France.
Mike [00:23:19]: Yeah, it’s in the Alps. Regardless, that’s kind of a new thing. You get to learn not just about working with these other people, but you also get to learn a new set of business skills that you otherwise wouldn’t be exposed to. I think that those are very neat ways to learn about new stuff that you could potentially bring into your business. Obviously, running a in-person group can be applicable to most businesses. Obviously, not all of them, but there are ways to leverage that in a lot of different businesses.
Rob [00:23:48]: Yeah. I think in terms of joint venturing, early on with Drip we did some joint venture webinars with different marketing teams, and we were blown away by the way some of them operated, just in how much of a machine they were in terms of processes and how well-executed. We just saw professionals doing it, basically. That experience alone showed us, “We need to up our game. We need to get better at just having refined processes and really going after what’s working and doubling down on that.” I think any type of JV, if you’re working with someone who’s sharp, you’re going to pick things up from them.
Mike [00:24:18]: The last one is to do some self-study and then blog about the experience. Obviously, self-study can take on a variety of different forms, but typically you want to have some sort of an endpoint or a goal in mind. Whether that’s to actually launch a product, or to build a training course, or even just to put together a case study – writing a book, for example, is something I talked to somebody about recently, and they just grilled me about all the different things to go into it, what comes with physical books versus digital books, how do you get the ISBN numbers, what goes into the layout and design for the book cover, and how the spine factors into it based on the number of pages, and all these little things that you wouldn’t necessarily think of, but they all go into that process. If you have to put that together and then present it to other people – whether it’s a blog, or a case study, or something along those lines – then you’re essentially teaching them. You have to understand the topic well enough in order to be able to teach it. If you can’t do that, then obviously there’s gaps in your knowledge, and those are going to show through. When you’re going through that process of putting together the teaching or training materials that go along with it after the fact, you’re going to be able to fill in those gaps, because if you look at that as a standalone work, the training side of it, you’re going to see that those gaps exist. You’re going to have to go back, and you’re going to have to learn those pieces so that you can educate other people. This really applies to anything. Teaching is one of those things that you have to understand a process or a product in order to be able to teach it to somebody else. One, it’s clear that you don’t understand it if you’re trying to teach it and you don’t. The second thing is that, by default, when you try to teach somebody something you understand it a little bit better because you have to present it in such a way that it’s easy for somebody else to pick up. So, teaching does help your own understanding of it as well.
Rob [00:26:04]: To recap, our nine ways to introduce new ideas into your business are through: books, training courses, blogs and podcasts, hiring a contractor or consultant, mentoring someone else, doing consulting work on the side, attending a conference with your peers, joint ventures and partnerships and self-study.
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