In this episode of Startups For The Rest Of Us, Rob interviews Nathan Chan of Foundr Magazine about his journey to success and what he has learned along the way.
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Rob [00:00]: In this episode of “Startups for the Rest of Us,” I interview Nathan Chan of “Foundr” magazine. “Foundr” magazine is an online magazine, and Nathan bootstrapped this completely on his own two years ago, starting in about 2013. He was sued by one of the biggest magazine publishers in the U.S. within the first four months of starting. He’s gotten interviews with folks like Richard Branson, Ariana Huffington, Tony Robbins and Seth Godin; and he’s really stair-stepped his way up from not knowing what he was doing or how to do it into building a really solid brand and a profitable online magazine. This is “Startups for the Rest of Us,” episode 261.
Rob [00:47]: “Welcome to Startups for the Rest of Us,” the podcast that helps developers, designers and entrepreneurs be awesome at launching software products, whether you’ve built you first product or you’re just thinking about it. I’m Rob, and today with Nathan Chan, we’re here to share our experiences to help you avoid the same mistakes we’ve made. So, today I’d like to welcome Nathan Chan of “Foundr” magazine. “Foundr” is a tablet-based magazine, so on your iPad, or your android; or, I’m assuming you probably get it on – can you get it on Kindle Fire as well?
Nathan [01:14]: No, you can’t.
Rob [01:15]: Okay.
Nathan [01:16]: You can’t, but you can get it on mobile, too.
Rob [01:18]: On mobile. Okay. You can download the Founder app. It’s spelled F-O-U-N-D-R, and Nathan has somehow been able to secure interviews with some pretty amazing people: Steve Blank, Richard Branson –
Nathan [01:31]: Ariana Huffington, Tony Robbins, Seth Godin –
Rob [01:34]: – very nice.
Nathan [01:35]: – various – many more.
Rob [01:36]: He’s a bootstrap startup founder, and that’s why I wanted to have him on the show, just to talk about his experiences. The magazine’s been out since 2013. He’s learned a ton on his journey, and so although listening to this podcast, you may be thinking, “Well, I’m not going to start a magazine,” there’re so many lessons that Nathan has experienced and learned through his time that we’re going to dive into over the next 30 minutes.
Thank you so much for joining me today, Nathan.
Nathan [02:00]: Thank you so much for having me, Rob. It’s an absolute pleasure. I’m a massive fan of the show.
Rob [02:04]: Very cool. Talk to us a little bit about “Foundr” magazine: why’d you start it, and maybe give us maybe a little background about what it is and what the goal is.
Nathan [02:12]: Yeah, sure thing. I started, actually, Foundr while I was working my full-time job. I bootstrapped it, as you mentioned, from the ground up. I actually didn’t even leave my day job until I fully replaced my income, and that’s something that a lot of people don’t do. They usually go cold and just leave their job and just make it work; but for me, I’m a very risk-averse person. It all started because – also, you mentioned that “Foundr” is my first business. I’ve never ran a business before, and it all started from just the curiosity of always wanting to become an entrepreneur and not really knowing where to start, what it takes; and also the fact that I identified that there wasn’t really a publication out there – an entrepreneurial, business publication – that myself, as an aspiring entrepreneur, could relate to. I think magazines like “Forbes,” “Entrepreneur,” “Fast Company” – these are great magazines, and they produce great content, but I found it difficult to relate to. I think they go on the assumption that you’ve already started a business; or, you already have a business; or, you’re an experienced, accomplished entrepreneur, and I found it quite intimidating. I knew that podcasts were really not, and I also realized that there wasn’t really a magazine targeting the younger demographic as well – nothing that was known. So, I just thought to myself, “Well, let’s just give this magazine thing a try.” We launched just on the iPad while I was in my day job, and I said, “I’ll give it a good, hard crack for a year.” Then I built it up, left my job; and, yeah, here we are today. But I guess the magazine just stemmed from just my own curiosity and wanting, I think, to fill that void in the marketplace that I identified.
Rob [04:04]: Very cool. To give folks an idea of where you were at, you were basically working a full-time job. You bootstrapped this. You didn’t raise funding. Everyone who helped you work on the magazine is a contractor, you mentioned, so you have, I’m assuming, contract writers, contract photographers, contract designers and layout folks. I mean this really was the effort of one person and very doable. This type of thing is very doable by anyone – right – if you were able to pull it off?
Nathan [04:32]: Yeah, I think so, definitely. I’ll be very clear. We have a lot of people that are helping me behind the scenes, and we do have some full-time staff now; but, yeah, yeah. To pull it off it was just me, man, and just utilizing freelancers, contractors all around the world; and I think that’s the awesome thing about the Internet now.
Rob [04:50]: Yeah, for sure. This is really cool. You’re 31 episodes in. You started, it looks like, March of 2013. How did you get that initial kick-start? You probably spent months planning, designing, building that first issue; and you launch into the iOS App Store, I assume, the Android App Store at the time. What did you do? How did you try to find people and convince them to download the app?
Nathan [05:15]: Yeah. I remember the first day we launched, we had 70 downloads. I made $5, and that was the first $5 I’d ever made online [laughs].
Rob [05:24]: Wow. Very cool.
Nathan [05:27]: What I realized was I needed – I didn’t have any money, and we were bootstrapping, so I had to work out, “What is the lowest-hanging fruit?” I quickly worked out that one of the best ways for us to get more downloads – I kind of tracked it back. So, “What does it look like for someone to subscribe to the magazine?” Before that, they have to download the app. Then before that, how do they even find the app? I did all sorts of things – not too heavily, to be honest with you, Rob. I didn’t really do any social while I was in my day job, so it took me about a year to build up the magazine. For that whole year, all I focused on was shipping a monthly magazine every month and try and get as many readers as I could. I didn’t really touch social, didn’t really touch content marketing, couldn’t afford any paid customer acquisition; so, I really had to just took at my playing field and find, “What’s the lowest-hanging fruit?” “Where’s the starving crowd?” I identified if you have an app, one of the lowest-hanging fruits is App Store optimization. So, Google for the App Store, like SEO for the App Store. What I found was that there’s all these people looking for business-type magazines, and they’re searching for key search terms like “entrepreneur magazine,” “business magazine,” “startup magazine,” “startup.” So, what I got really, really good with was optimizing that whole funnel from finding the app to getting people to subscribe. I can tell you for a fact that anyone that first opens the magazine, we have a 30 percent uptake of people subscribing. Then from there, I can tell you, working backwards, that if you search for “entrepreneur magazine,” “fast company,” “Forbes,” we actually piggyback off all of those magazines. So, if you ever search for those magazines that you want to read digitally in the App Store or Google Play Store – not hardly ever our downloads come from the Google Play Store – I’ll be very clear – but in the App Store, if you search for that, any of those key terms, “Foundr” will come up. We play also on the fact that you get your free Richard Branson issue. We try and build that trust; make it a no-brainer; and, yeah, just take it from there. But App Store optimization has been massive for us, Rob.
Rob [07:47]: I like that, because I have this theory called the “stair-step approach” to bootstrapping, and typically it involves launching a small product with a single marketing channel that you get really good at, then expanding into others and moving up this ladder. Typically, it’s with different products; but it sounds like with Foundr, you launched it, and you got really good at App Store SEO and, for lack of a better term, and then you branched out from there. I’m assuming by this time, you’re doing social. You’re obviously doing podcasts to promote it and other avenues, but when you started out, just getting that single tool on your tool belt can be so valuable for a first-time entrepreneur.
Nathan [08:22]: Yeah, I agree. That’s pretty spot-on, Rob; because it was only actually when I left my job we went down the content path. We used to have a really crappy website. It was terrible. It was just a basic landing page to keep Apple happy; but, yeah, once I left my job, it actually freed me up to focus on the content marketing page, roll out the podcast and roll out social. Yeah, we’re kicking some goals with social now, like the stuff we do with Instagram. We’ve got an email database of 100,000 that we built in a year from 3,000. A lot of that traction’s come from Instagram. We’ve found a few other channels now as well.
Rob [08:56]: That’s pretty impressive. You said you built it on Instagram. Obviously, Instagram is heavily image-based, so was that pieces taken out of the magazine, like different pages or different stories that you’re putting up there?
Nathan [09:06]: Yeah. What I’ve found with Instagram is – same with all those social channels. If you go and look at “Entrepreneur” magazine, “Fast Company,” “Forbes,” a lot of them post quotes on Twitter, or Facebook. We do the same in Instagram. We post, like, 95 percent quote; and we post a little bit about the podcast, a little bit about the magazine, a little bit – it’s a very small portion – behind-the-scenes stuff. But the quotes work really, really well because they have that virality where people tag their friends. They share it. They screen-shot it. They repost it; and that’s worked very, very well for us.
Rob [09:39]: Yeah. See, I like this because anyone can take lessons away from this. Again, if you’re listening this, you’re not starting a magazine, per se, you hear what Nathan’s done as a first-time entrepreneur: a) he shipped. He just said, “I’m going to ship for a year, and I’m going to get 12 issues out, and I’m going to figure it out along the way. Then he focused on a single tool in his tool belt – it was this App Store optimization – and then expanded out from there. You’re now talking virality, which is how you went from 3,000 to 100,000 email addresses; and although Instagram may not be the particular channel if you’re running a B-to-B app, or if you’re doing other things there’s always byproducts. You’re basically taking byproducts of something you’ve already produced, which are quotes out of the magazine, which is your finished product that you’re selling. You’re taking these byproducts and figuring out where they’re going to catch. In your case, it is Instagram; but I can imagine for other apps there’re going to be other approaches. This is good stuff.
Nathan [10:29]: Yeah, I think it’s all about just, yeah, shipping every – producing something consistently every, single week; every, single day; every, single month and just focusing on it and just having a relentless ability to attack whatever it is you’re focusing on if you get a little bit of traction and just scaling that up.
Rob [10:48]: Speaking of scale, at this point, how many monthly readers to you have at this point?
Nathan [10:51]: We have 25,000 monthly readers.
Rob [10:53]: Got it. Looks like you have multiple channels now. You have the magazine, which is obviously your flagship. You’ve started a podcast. Are you interviewing folks that are also appearing in the magazine?
Nathan [11:05]: Yes. What we do with the magazine – and I didn’t realize this until later, but one thing we do is we do these interviews on Skype, just like me and you are doing, for the feature interviews in the magazine. Now, we’re actually repurposing – because we actually imbed those interviews within the magazine. What I realized after a year was I’ve got all these amazing interviews with all these super successful founders and hard-to-reach founders. Why not just get our best ones and put it out into the world with the podcasts? I know it’s a great tool, a great platform. I always said I didn’t want to do a podcast, and that was how we were going to differentiate ourself, and the podcast has really taken off. It’s been an amazing trust builder, so now it’s just like another, I guess, latch on our tool belt to build our platform, to build our reach and to spread the mission and the word of just really promoting entrepreneurship and showing people what it takes.
Rob [12:00]: Very cool. I’m curious. Do you do much of the writing in the magazine yourself? Or, is it all hired writers?
Nathan [12:05]: Yeah, no. We have a part-time editor who now helps with all of our content that goes out, because we’re pumping out a lot of content now, man. So, yeah, Tate, he’s from Boston. He manages all that, and then we have tons of contractor writers – you know, 15, 20 contract writers. I only write the “Editor’s Letter” –
Rob [12:24]: Got it.
Nathan [12:25]: – but in the early days when I first started and it was costing, like … oh, my God, man. It’s funny, thinking back. Operating costs to produce the first few issues was under $500 –
Rob [12:37]: Wow.
Nathan [12:38]: – and, yeah, I had to do some of the writing. I was getting my mom to help me do some stuff.
Rob [12:42]: Sure.
Nathan [12:42]: I was getting friends to help me do some stuff; but, yeah. No, long away from the writing and touching that now.
Rob [12:47]: Yeah, you were scrappy and lean at one point, and now you have to be –
Nathan [12:51]: [Laughs]
Rob [12:52]: – no, you have to be sane. You can’t work 80-hour weeks anymore. So, very cool. And then you’ve also branched out. I think folks will find this interesting. You’ve also branched in now to creating a couple of knowledge products, or information products. One is about marketing on Instagram.
Nathan [13:06]: Yeah, we have a crowd funding guide, but that’s just like an eBook that is very well-curated.
Rob [13:11]: Right, so you’re taking a little bit of a push into that area, right? What made you decide to start selling info products as well?
Nathan [13:18]: Yeah. What I realized was – the magazine was doing well, you know, a profitable, six-figure business – just the magazine alone. What I realized was a lot of people started asking me – because we were using Instagram as an amazing channel to grow the magazine and to build our awareness and reach and email database. What was interesting was I wrote this blog post and, still, to this day, it’s one of the most successful blog posts on our site. It was titled “How to Get 10,000 Followers in Two Weeks on Instagram,” and that just crushed it, man. Neil Patel always references it, all sorts of things. All these people would come up to me, and they found that blog post. What happened very quickly was a lot of people started asking me how I was doing this stuff, and then a lot of people started asking me to do consulting. I was like, “I don’t really have time.” “I don’t really want to focus on that.” I thought, “Why don’t I just create a course?” So, I just put out to our email list an email saying, “Guys, would this be something you’re interested in?” Even though our database was around 5,000, 7,000 at the time – this was very early, because we got some really great traction early on with Instagram within the first couple weeks. People were just like, “Yeah, I’d love” – hundreds and hundreds of responses from people writing back to me in our community. So, this was something our community as asking for. I launched a beta, and then we relaunched the full course, and then it’s been really, really lucrative for the business and also just the community that have signed up to the course, it’s amazing some of the results our students are getting. It was something that I was just like, “Wow! Okay, so this is something that our community wants. It’s something our community is asking for. They’re asking for more help,” and I’m constantly getting asked about all these other things around starting a business, how to scale – all these other things. So, what I’ve realized is “Foundr” is the front end of the business, and then we can further monetize and build it up for the back end. I’ll be very clear, Rob. I won’t be doing the teaching. I’ll have many other experts coming in, and we’ll be doing curated courses using the publishing model, where I offer somebody an opportunity to either white-light all their content, or their video course that they have existingly. Then we package it up in the Foundr way with our tools, with our platform, with our systems. Then we do a deal, like an ongoing profit split. That’s the model we’re going to scale up. So, “Foundr,” podcast, blog content, social content, all on the front end. Right now, 95 percent of our content is free; and then if people want more help, it is there. I speak to a lot of people in our community. I actually jump on the phone whenever I can and just find out what their biggest problems, frustrations, desires are. A lot of things I’m hearing is people are saying, “Nathan, we love the stuff you’re producing. We love the free stuff, everything you’re doing; but sometimes we just need more help,” “Need more help.” Like, “I want to try this.” “I want to do this.” “I want to do this.” People always love that handheld content if they don’t have time to stuff around, or – you know, a lot of people just want their hand held. So, I think this industry, the online education industry is a multi-billion-dollar industry; and I think we’re now better equipped, then, to tap into that.
Rob [16:44]: What I like about the approach that you’ve taken is the common approach for building an audience these days is to start a blog or a podcast; and then you build the audience up, you find out what they need, and then you build products for them. You’ve taken a different approach and started a magazine, then made that profitable and then are looking at basically these content upsells. I’ve seen a few others. I know “Entrepreneur” magazine has their book line, and they have some events that they throw. I guess a lot of magazines wind up throwing events in order to do it, but I do like this hybrid model; because – let’s be honest – just purely publishing a magazine or a newspaper these days, even online, is not a growth business, per se. People expect the content to be free. I know they do pay for yours; but it’s going to be very, very difficult to build that into, let’s say, a $10 million business, or a $20 million-dollar – I mean you just can’t get to the scale. Whereas, adding these upsells and actually charging money for really valuable information and being able to charge a premium for these courses that are put behind your brand name – because your brand name obviously has a lot of equity with the folks that are reading our magazine and respect what you’re doing. Then, if you can place that on front of some $19 eBooks at this point, and then maybe it’s a $100, $200 video course, maybe at some point you throw an event – that’s where you’re going to be able to really grow this business and increase your revenue.
Nathan [18:03]: Yeah, I agree. Look, don’t get me wrong, Rob. I’ve got my eyes on building an eight-figure business. I think we can do it, do be honest with you, probably in a couple of years. That’s my goal. Now, it’s all about just finding out further ways to serve our community; just keep producing epic content; and, yeah, just rolling out and serving as many of our people in our community as we can and just producing more epic content, whether that’s paid or free.
Rob [18:28]: Very cool. I’m interested to hear how – you started this magazine from scratch. You were, in essence, kind of an unknown, I’ll say; and within eight months, your eighth issue, you have Richard Branson on the cover. In fact, your sixth issue has Neil Patel. You got Ed Dale in issue two. You got some big names early on. How did you possibly pull that off?
Nathan [18:51]: Yeah. One thing I realized, Rob – I didn’t know this when I started, but having a magazine is very, very powerful for building authority; and people take you really seriously. Some of the people we’ve got lined up for 2016 for our covers is crazy, like really, really hard-to-reach founders. I don’t know if I can say, but we’re talking to billionaires and stuff like that to get on our front covers – more billionaires, not just Richard Branson. Yeah, people take you really seriously, Rob; and you have a little bit more weight as opposed to having a blog or a podcast. I didn’t realize this until – it took me a few months to work this out, because if you actually look at the front cover of the first issue, Rob, I didn’t even have a successful person on the front cover. I had a stock image [laughs], and that’s kind of funny, looking back; because now we don’t have any problem. The reason we had that stock image was because no one would get back to me, but I just kept pitching, man. I just kept hustling, and within the first four months, I realized, “Richard Branson’s been on the front cover of every, single business magazine. Why can’t he be on the front cover of ours?” I just went down this path of finding out how to contact him, and I made a lot of phone calls. One thing: if you want to get any ambassadors for your brand, well, here’s a few, quick hacks for people that I know all you guys that are listening are going to love. One, make phone calls. I found that they get so much better cut-through, if you want to find ambassadors for your brand, if they’re an influence in whatever niche you’re in. If they have a book, try and contact the publishers. Find out who publishes that book, like Random House. Find their PR team. Speak to them and then try and find either the company’s PR team, or the agency that represents that person or company’s brand – their PR team. Then just try and find those people, because they’re actually paid to find press, so they can make you look good whatever kind of mutually beneficial exchange in value you come up with. Then I found myself about four months into the magazine on the phone to Sir Richard Branson’s head of PR. I pitched her over the phone. I remember I was so nervous. I was stumbling, and she said, “Look, please understand we get, like, ten requests a day; but shoot me an email. I promise I will get back to you. It might be a while, but I will get back to you.” I pitched for a Skype interview, and she said, “Sir Richard’s really busy, but he can do an email interview.” Then from there, his team worked with me to get the photos, and we come up with a feature, and we ask the questions. We get the answers. Then we come to a story, an angle; and then from there, to be honest, Rob, that was Richard Branson. Then I’ve just used that as a springboard to gain influence in the space. Yeah, just keep pitching, man. I’m just very, very relentless and very organized now, too. We’ve got up until June 2016 covers booked with some very cool, hard-to-reach founders. They’re going to be amazing interviews, hard. It’s going to be really solid content. Yeah, I’ve just played on that springboard. Another good tool that I use in my arsenal, if you are pitching over email, is a Gmail plugin called “Rebump.” Because you come from an email marketing background, you might know of it. It’s amazing. It allows you pretty much to just “set and forget.” When you are pitching business development style, you send an email. You get the Gmail plugin installed on your Gmail, and then you tick that little box. Then there’ll be literally, like, templated emails that will follow up; and it knows, because it’s connected to your Gmail, if somebody writes back and just flat-out follows up for you. That works very, very well.
Rob [22:39]: Yeah, I use Boomerang for that –
Nathan [22:41]: Yeah.
Rob [22:42]: – but it doesn’t automatically follow up. It just boomerangs it back in, and then I have to do another reply; but that’s what I commonly use. I think that’s a really good tip. That ties back in with something Steli Efti was saying. He’s kind of the master of startup sales, and he was saying that at MicroConf last April – basically, that you just have to follow up. Oftentimes, he wouldn’t get a sale, or wouldn’t get an answer until he followed up 15, 20, 30 times; but the people who are doing that are the ones that probably are the ones that are getting Richard Branson and Daymond John and Seth Godin and Tony Robbins like you are. I’d imagine these days, though, with all the issues you have and with all the people you can mention that you’ve already interviewed, you just have such credibility that I bet – when you emailed Seth Godin, was it even that big of a deal? Or, did he say, “Sure, I’ll just come into the magazine”?
Nathan [23:27]: Yeah, you got it spot-on, Rob. I just had to build it up, just build up that credibility and just keep – I used Richard Branson as a springboard. Yeah, with Seth Godin, it was pretty much I emailed him; and then he emailed me back in the morning, saying, “Can you do it in two hours?” I was like, “Yeah, [?].”
Rob [23:43]: That’s great.
Nathan [23:43]: So, we had the podcast interview; and, yeah, it was really cool; really, really fun. Great guy.
Rob [23:48]: Yep, that’s what I’ve heard.
I want to wrap us up on this final topic. You told me offline that you were sued by one of the biggest magazines in the first four months of your starting. Obviously, you lived to tell about it. Talk to us a little bit about what happened there and how you recovered. I’m definitely interested to hear how you felt during that time.
Nathan [24:09]: What happened was – it’s funny, looking back. We were just talking about this offline. It is not a very nice feeling to be sued, especially when it’s your first-ever business, and especially when you have no money and you don’t never, ever in the world ever expect that to happen. Just always play it really smart. Don’t ever think it won’t happen to you, because it might. You just never know. What happened to me was the magazine actually wasn’t called “Foundr.” We had to change it four months in. I remember we’d just locked down the interview with Richard Branson, and I was just thinking, “Wow. We’re kicking some [grows?].” Then I woke up in the morning about 7 a.m., about to go to my day job, and I checked my email. I got this email from this lawyer saying, “Hey, Nathan. I’m from so-and-so. I just want to know if you weren’t aware. You’re being sued by this company. They’re one of the biggest print magazines in the States.” He said, “Yeah, I just wanted to let you know you’re being state in Dallas, State [of] Texas. You’re being sued by this company.” He’s like, “You probably want to move fast.” He’s like, “I actually have a really good relationship with the judge on this case, so you should totally get me to represent you.” [Laughs] And I was just like – 7 a.m. in the morning, I was freaking out. I was like, “Is this sophisticated spam?” I haven’t been served. I didn’t know what the hell was going on, man. You know, it was crazy! A long story short, I had to change the name. I’m so glad that it happened now when it did, because we got a ten times better name, ten times better branding. It was such a blessing in disguise; but at the time, Rob, I was so stressed out. It was really, really crazy. I was lucky enough I didn’t even have to pay any money just because I had some amazing mentors that helped me through that whole process. Some of my mentors had been sued before. We just changed the name, and they left us alone. It was, yeah, really a blessing in disguise, [a] great lesson to be learned early on. But for the audience, when it comes to trademark infringement, if you’re erring on the side of caution, just don’t even do it. Make sure that your name, your branding is very individual and unique. If you think to yourself that it might be a little bit similar, or it might be a concern, just, yeah, go down the path of making sure you protect yourself. I think that’s really important.
Rob [26:34]: Right. Then the other lesson – because I’ve heard from several folks who’ve had run-ins like this – is that when you’re contacted – in an ideal world, they wouldn’t have just sued you. They would have sent you a letter letting you know about the issue, and then – you know what I’m saying – and then send a [?] – I’ve had a friend who’s had a couple different WordPress plugins, and as it turns out, it accidentally infringed on trademarks of company names, because they were helping people use that company through WordPress. So, it’s a natural thing to include the name in there. But they’ve been nice enough not to just sue him. They sent him a letter. Typically, it’s an email. It says, “Hey, I’m in the so-and-so department. This has come to our attention. We want to work with you to help you transition,” you know? They don’t give some hardline. There’s two ways to go about this, right? You can come in swinging and be like, “My lawyer will be in touch!” Or, you can say, “Let’s work with you on this.” That’s the way that I think so many of these cases turn out, and I think it’s such a better approach to just be able to resolve it without going to court; because let’s be honest. If you actually go to court, the only people that win there are the lawyers. They get paid a lot of money, and even if you win in –
Nathan [27:39]: [Laughs] That’s right.
Rob [27:39]: – court, you almost never really win in court. There’s just not that much money that comes out of it for either side.
Nathan [27:45]: Yeah, that’s exactly right. And, look, dude, I had no money at all. So, [laughs] you know.
Rob [27:49]: Wasn’t gonna happen, yeah.
Nathan [27:50]: [Laughs] Yeah, that’s right. We weren’t really making much money at all, anyways.
Rob [27:55]: Yeah. Well, very cool. Thanks again for coming on the show. If folks want to keep up with you online, where should they look?
Nathan [28:01]: You’re welcome, Rob. Best place is just hit up our website: foundrmag.com, F-O-U-N-D-Rmag.com. Now you know why we spell it “Foundr” without the “e,” because there was no one in the world that had that name, so we can be protected.
Rob [28:19]: Very cool. Thanks again.
Nathan [28:21]: You’re welcome. Absolute pleasure.
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